HTML 5

[Steve Comstock]

Man, has this got a long way to go.

DOCTYPE - required but "mostly useless"?
What about for XHMTL? Do I need a DOCTYPE?

Where's all the definitive attributes for all the elements?

What elements, tags, attributes, values have case sensitivty?
Where does XHTML 5 differ from HTML 5 on this?

It looks like you are intending to include XHTML 5 in the
HTML 5 recommendation, but there are lots of areas that need
more careful and complete descriptions, especially in
pointing out where XHTML 5 differs from HTML 5.


I'm not so sure about this path you're on,



Kind regards,

-Steve Comstock
The Trainer's Friend, Inc.

303-393-8716
http://www.trainersfriend.com

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[Ian Hickson]

Post by Steve Comstock
DOCTYPE - required but "mostly useless"?

More or less, yes. It's only purpose in text/html now is to avoid
triggering quirks mode in browsers.

Post by Steve Comstock
What about for XHMTL? Do I need a DOCTYPE?

This is covered in the section on XHTML:

http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/#writing-xhtml-documents

Post by Steve Comstock
Where's all the definitive attributes for all the elements?

The plan is to have a summary table here:

http://www.whatwg.org/specs/web-apps/current-work/#index

I'll probably fill that in in a few weeks.

Post by Steve Comstock
What elements, tags, attributes, values have case sensitivty?

This is a very complicated question with an answer that is spread
throughout the specification.

Post by Steve Comstock
Where does XHTML 5 differ from HTML 5 on this?

There are very few differences, but where they exist they are covered in
the relevant parts of the spec, e.g. the syntax differences are covered in
the syntax sections, the DOM differences are covered in the DOM section,
and so on.

Post by Steve Comstock
It looks like you are intending to include XHTML 5 in the HTML 5
recommendation, but there are lots of areas that need more careful and
complete descriptions, especially in pointing out where XHTML 5 differs
from HTML 5.

As far as I can tell, these are all well-defined, they're just not
summarised anywhere in the spec. However, I'm not sure such a summary
would really be that useful other than as an introduction, and for that
documents such as Mike's draft will be more helpful:

http://dev.w3.org/html5/markup/

Cheers,

[Steve Comstock]

I've retired from teaching IBM mainframe topics.

Well, I've retired.

Well, I'm casting about for things to do.

And I've settled on a couple of directions, that inter-relate:

* Set up a company that builds websites for groups
going on trips: the Global Travel Factory, LLC:

http://www.globaltravelfactory.com/

* Developing course materials to teach people how to
code HTML / CSS / JavaScript

from scratch

using Notepad and no other tools

Yikes! Fool!


Since I had a course like this for IBM mainframe users
I figured this would be a snap. And it is, mostly.


But I'm trying to make this course totally HTML 5 and
related levels of CSS and JavaScript and I'm hitting a
wall of understanding here.


The biggest problem is: why use EMBED vs OBJECT? And I
have a few reasons in my materials. But I would like
some real world examples, especially for OBJECT using
PARAM.

Since most UAs are moving away from Flash, Quicktime,
and Java applets, I can't find much rationale.


I can use EMBED or OBJECT to include a .pdf document and
another HTML page, that's cool.

I can use either of these to display images (but IMG
would be better); I can use either of these to play .mp3
and ogg, and to show .mp4, .ogv, and .webm

(a few browsers don't play well there - mostly Edge).


But of course, for the audio and video formats it's better
to use the AUDIO and VIDEO elements.


Yesterday I got YouTube videos included using both EMBED
and OBJECT. These are basically just links, however.


So .pdf and .html are the only examples I've come up with
to use EMBED and OBJECT at all, and neither of those need
PARAM for the OBJECT element.


**********************************************************
* *
* Ah this helps me to think out loud. I guess this boils *
* down to: is there any real world example, in today's *
* world without Flash, Quicktime, and Java applets, for *
* using OBJECT with PARAM? *
* *
**********************************************************


Thanks for any insights you can share.

Kind regards,

-Steve Comstock

[Marat Tanalin]

Post by Steve Comstock
So .pdf and .html are the only examples I've come up with
to use EMBED and OBJECT at all, and neither of those need
PARAM for the OBJECT element.
is there any real world example, in today's
world without Flash, Quicktime, and Java applets, for
using OBJECT with PARAM?

Embedding PDF directly is unreliable given that:

* not all browsers have a built-in PDF tool to view PDF documents (like PDF.js in Firefox);

* not all PDF files can be shown correctly using PDF.js.

It's generally better to show HTML document while providing (if really needed) a link to download a PDF version of the HTML document.

To embed HTML document in another one, just use the `iFRAME` element (or avoid using separate documents at all, and display the required content directly as a part of the whole single page). As long as you don't need Flash, forget about `OBJECT`, `EMBED`, and `PARAM`.